Asp/OC Certifications

[CAL]

Through the academy I have the choice of getting certified to carry a baton and OC spray but after some conversations with some of my PoPo friends I'm not sure I want to do it. Their thought was that the asp and OC spray was just more shit to carry on the duty belt and was generally a pain in the ass, particularly if you carry a taser. Additionally, from a liability perspective, it was mentioned that if deadly force was used it could open up a "can of worms" if there were other less than deadly options available. What are your thoughts?

[FerretLE426]

If a taser does not work, what are you going to do? The Taser is not the be all to end all. Baton is great for gaining access to vehicles, riots and scratching under your vest. OC will get you out of a stick situation where you are outnumber 15 to 1. I recommend you take all three to a fight ;)

[Feet]

I carried a baton for about 6 years and used it ZERO times. Mostly because when I worked nights I used my big flashlight for windows and attitude adjustments. Now, the baton is a high level of force close to lethal force! I do not carry mine anymore.I am all for OC spray. It is not very heavy, especially if you carry the smaller cans.
My choices, carry Taser and OC.

[DD78]

I would get certified in everything they offer.

The Taser is not a magic bullet. It is a tool. It is a one shot tool. Maybe two if you carry a second cartridge...but changing a cartridge when it hits the fan is not always easy.

In 3 yrs. I have personally used spray 8 times at last count. I've been present for well over a dozen sprayings...close to two dozen at least. I've been surrounded by a hostile crowd twice that was intent on attacking me. Nothing disperses a crowd like a "helicopter" spray.

I've used my baton once, and only to threaten. Other than that it makes an excellent door knocker.

Certify in everything. Carry what you can. It is better to have and not need than to need and not have. As for deadly force and the ramifications...think big picture.

The percentage of officers who use deadly force is minute.

The percentage of officers who have used pepper spray is damn near 100%.

If you shoot someone, you had better have something better to say to the grand jury other than "I didn't have any spray". TRUE BILL.

Certify in them. The spray won't hurt you for long.

[DD78]

If a taser does not work, what are you going to do? The Taser is not the be all to end all. Baton is great for gaining access to vehicles, riots and scratching under your vest. OC will get you out of a stick situation where you are outnumber 15 to 1. I recommend you take all three to a fight ;)

A Taser is a machine, and machines break down. Bad gun, bad cartridge, can't get to it, you miss.

A thousand different scenarios.

[Shadowcop92]

I am currently certified on all three, times I say I am taking something off the belt but then I think of a time I had to use it and it stays. As my brethren Ferret has stated all three in a fight is a blessing to have. Get certified and then make your choice that way at least you had the training and do not have to try and get it when you realize you do want it.

[TxSgt1911]

I'd get certified on everything I could. Tasers are a good tool, but I'd be very cautious on relying on one tool 100% of the time. Cartridges fail, darts miss, and Murphy's law pretty much guarantees that it will fail when you need it the most. I've used all 3 - OC, Asp, and Taser. And I was glad to have all 3 when the time came to use one or the other.

[tayous1]

I'm certified in all three also but there are departments out there that will not let you carry any of them I worked for one for about 6 months. The Sheriff said that he did not issue the gear because it let us go to the pistol faster. I would want to carry all three and I'm sorry to say but most officers I have seen have more then enough room on there belts for all the tool!





But this is the same Sheriff who chewed me out after I had to chase down a guy for 16 miles in a car and I had my weapon pointed at him trying to do a felony stop(long story). I was in a department that had 5 deputies to cover 2,000 square miles and the one one on duty at the time took 45 mins to get back up.

[DD78]

I was in a department that had 5 deputies to cover 2,000 square miles and the one one on duty at the time took 45 mins to get back up.

Wow, that's alot of ground to cover.

My department has 60 officers to cover 8 square miles and change. We could use more cops because we're busy as fuck and it's tough to be proactive bouncing call to call.

Did I mention that I work in a shithole??? :mrgreen:

[tayous1]

Wow, that's alot of ground to cover.

My department has 60 officers to cover 8 square miles and change. We could use more cops because we're busy as fuck and it's tough to be proactive bouncing call to call.

Did I mention that I work in a shithole??? :mrgreen:

Lucky we got maybe a 100 calls a month. Out of that 2,000 square miles we could only drive 11 miles North, 20 miles East, 5 miles South and 10 miles West. There where months on midnights that I'd do nothing but drive around not even get someone speeding other then Border Patrol.

[CAL]

Well, I'm getting certified with the expandable baton and radar on 1/15 and OC on 1/22.

:word:

[Feet]

Ive got some 2x spray that is supposed to be hotter than normal spray. After you get sprayed in training, let me douse you in this stuff and get your professional opinion.:gag:

[DD78]

Ive got some 2x spray that is supposed to be hotter than normal spray. After you get sprayed in training, let me douse you in this stuff and get your professional opinion.:gag:

Is that the Sabre Red shit? Something like 10 million scoville units?

If we were on the road and you hit me with that, I would be compelled to kill everyone you know. :nono: :wink:

[Feet]

Is that the Sabre Red shit? Something like 10 million scoville units?

If we were on the road and you hit me with that, I would be compelled to kill everyone you know. :nono: :wink:

It is the red can from "First Defense". I was worried about trying it at work because the first person I would spray would end up being weak or allergic,then keel over dead. It is a couple million scoville. I believe it known as "holy shit this sucks ass".

[CAL]

Well, I'm getting certified with the expandable baton and radar on 1/15 and OC on 1/22.

:word:
Asp and Radar down, OC yet to go this Friday.

[DD78]

Asp and Radar down, OC yet to go this Friday.


Good luck with OC. If you want to get a sense for what it feels like before your training there is something you can do at home to prepare for it.

Light a blowtorch and stick the flames in your eyes.

That's about right. GOOD LUCK!



*** Note for the galactically stupid who may read this at some point: Don't burn your face with a blowtorch. It will cause serious injury, disfigurement, blindness or death. THANKS! ***

[Reno911]

The 9th Curcuit just effectively ended our use of the Tasers. Shame.


If a taser does not work, what are you going to do? The Taser is not the be all to end all. Baton is great for gaining access to vehicles, riots and scratching under your vest. OC will get you out of a stick situation where you are outnumber 15 to 1. I recommend you take all three to a fight ;)

[DD78]

The 9th Curcuit just effectively ended our use of the Tasers. Shame.


Where can I find the case? On the bright side the 9th Circuit in famously reversed at about an 80% rate by the USSC.

[DD78]

Where can I find the case? On the bright side the 9th Circuit in famously reversed at about an 80% rate by the USSC.


Just read it in its entirety. You could debate this six ways from Sunday, so if it is going to be discussed, it should have it's own thread.

[CAL]

Kick down with a link to the case.

[DD78]

Kick down with a link to the case.


I'll start a thread. It's complicated.

The Texas Police and Law Enforcement Community Network

[DD78]

So how was it?

Still picking little orange crystals out of your eyes and burning when you shower? Or has that passed?

[CAL]

Actually it really wasn't that bad. My skin burned a bit but I had no problems seeing, breathing, etc. That is, until I went to go wash it off. For some reason the minute I doused my face in water it seemed to kick in. I couldn't open my eyes for more than a split second. There were some folks, though, that as soon as it made contact with their skin they were all fucked up. Worse than the CS chamber in basic training.

[DD78]

Actually it really wasn't that bad. My skin burned a bit but I had no problems seeing, breathing, etc. That is, until I went to go wash it off. For some reason the minute I doused my face in water it seemed to kick in. I couldn't open my eyes for more than a split second. There were some folks, though, that as soon as it made contact with their skin they were all fucked up. Worse than the CS chamber in basic training.


If you didn't have any vision problems when you got hit, they did it wrong. Or you are Superman. One of the two. Allegedly it's supposed to be not as bad for people who are accustomed to spicy food.

Seeing as how I nearly burst into flames when I had a bowl of my Texan neighbors "mild" chili, it is altogether possible that you would be less prone to difficulty.

Did they spray that shit right into your eyes? Did you keep them open or close them like a woman? :lol:

[CAL]

Actually they are concerned with the liability. Apparently you can detach a retina if sprayed directly into the eyes from too close of a range. So, they sprayed it into our hands and we washed our faces in it.

[DD78]

Actually they are concerned with the liability. Apparently you can detach a retina if sprayed directly into the eyes from too close of a range. So, they sprayed it into our hands and we washed our faces in it.



WEAK!

I got a nice facefull of it when I went through the academy. The shit gets BEHIND your eyeballs. It's grainy...you can feel it.

When the burning eases up that is.

That shit sucks.

[Broke Hoss]

My son just got certified, and in our academy they're still giving you the dose in the eyeballs. His description concurs with DD78.

[Feet]

Actually they are concerned with the liability. Apparently you can detach a retina if sprayed directly into the eyes from too close of a range. So, they sprayed it into our hands and we washed our faces in it.

Freaking GAY!
If you don't get it in your eyeballs then how else are you going to know what it is like to have your retinas on fire and you screaming like a scalded girl?:haha:

WE had to open our eyes, get sprayed, recite some shit then punch a pad a few times then find a red gun on the ground and point it at the target.
Did they give you guys a lolipop and an ice cream cone after you were done?:rofl:

[CAL]

One guy refused to have contact with the spray. He still got his certification. Now THAT is gay.

[DD78]

One guy refused to have contact with the spray. He still got his certification. Now THAT is gay.

I never EVER want to hear about how tough you Texans are again.

EVER.

[DD78]

Freaking GAY!
If you don't get it in your eyeballs then how else are you going to know what it is like to have your retinas on fire and you screaming like a scalded girl?:haha:

WE had to open our eyes, get sprayed, recite some shit then punch a pad a few times then find a red gun on the ground and point it at the target.
Did they give you guys a lolipop and an ice cream cone after you were done?:rofl:

We had to a take a couple second burst to the face with open eyes. We were then blindsided by an instructor whom we had to fight with to a cuff. Obviously he gave us a little something as long as you didn't freak out. You aren't winning a fight unless you are up against an incompetent 12 yr. old with a full OC blast.

[DD78]

Just got me a new can of spray.

Sabre Red.

This shit is fucking nasty!

[CAL]

Which reminds me - what spray should I get? What manufacturer? What concentration (5% or 10%), etc.?

[DD78]

Which reminds me - what spray should I get? What manufacturer? What concentration (5% or 10%), etc.?

Get a cone or a foam over a stream. Manufacturer, who cares...anything you find in galls ought to be ok. Make sure it is water based rather than oil based. Someone in your department or in a neighboring jurisdiction is bound to have a taser. If you spray someone with oil based spray and then taser them they will catch fire.

That's alot of paperwork.

5% or 10% really doesn't matter much. It depends on how bad you want it be for you when you get splashback or some of it rubbed in your eyes. I've always carried 5% and it was never a problem. Effective plenty.

I just got issued some 10%. Haven't used it yet. (All of our spray is issued). Before that I had foam. Foam is great for you...next to no contamination of officers.

[CAL]

What's the range of foam?

[DD78]

What's the range of foam?

I don't know...enough. If I had to guess I'd say around 15 feet. Rarely will you find yourself spraying at a great standoff distance. At least that has been my experience.

[Feet]

I don't know...enough. If I had to guess I'd say around 15 feet. Rarely will you find yourself spraying at a great standoff distance. At least that has been my experience.

Word. I like the stream but it is usually at or just beyond punching distance. Oh, unless you are in a group then the butthole spraying the OC will be about 20 feet away while you are wrestling the suspect. I have been sprayed more that I want to remember.
When that can comes out of someones pouch, I just step back to avoid that friendly fire because that is just regoddamndiculous.:nono:

[DD78]

Word. I like the stream but it is usually at or just beyond punching distance. Oh, unless you are in a group then the butthole spraying the OC will be about 20 feet away while you are wrestling the suspect. I have been sprayed more that I want to remember.
When that can comes out of someones pouch, I just step back to avoid that friendly fire because that is just regoddamndiculous.:nono:

Yeah...usually the guy is already in a headlock. Pepper spray/tasers/baton is not a substitute for knowing how to fight. They are simply tools that make it easier for you. And so you can gain control of someone without completely breaking them down.

You aren't there to be the heavyweight champ. You are there to affect an arrest.